2004 A6 3.0 sickening engine noise Help!
11-09-2013, 09:37 AM
#11
[QUOTE=f29pc;24507363]..Should I do the whole 9 yards and pull the cam pulleys and do the cam seals (no leaks), or just the TB/WP rollers and Tensioner?..QUOTE]
If you are going to get the front end open / service position, and do the water pump, I don't see why you should avoid doing the seals and necessary gaskets. Yeah, I know, don't fix it if it ain't broke.. but, you are doing quite a bit of prep work to get there so, wouldn't it make sense to do them anyway? When I did my T-Belt job, cam seals and cam oil covers were bone dry @117k miles! Cam Tensioner gaskets and seals on the other hand is an entire different story; showered the exhaust with oil! In any case, I replaced all the seals and gaskets. Just take your time and seat them in straight. No oil on seal lips. Use Brake cleaner on surfaces before putting new seals -absolutely no oil. I did it this way and there is no sign of oil outside! Do it right first time and you'll be trouble-free (well, almost
).
So, I'd say, go ahead and do them. It's not much of a work anyway and you can have peace of mind. If you want some more info/pointers etc. do adv. search for under my username. I've had some good doubts when doing this job and respected forum members here helped a great deal! It might be beneficial to you.
If you are going to get the front end open / service position, and do the water pump, I don't see why you should avoid doing the seals and necessary gaskets. Yeah, I know, don't fix it if it ain't broke.. but, you are doing quite a bit of prep work to get there so, wouldn't it make sense to do them anyway? When I did my T-Belt job, cam seals and cam oil covers were bone dry @117k miles! Cam Tensioner gaskets and seals on the other hand is an entire different story; showered the exhaust with oil! In any case, I replaced all the seals and gaskets. Just take your time and seat them in straight. No oil on seal lips. Use Brake cleaner on surfaces before putting new seals -absolutely no oil. I did it this way and there is no sign of oil outside! Do it right first time and you'll be trouble-free (well, almost
).So, I'd say, go ahead and do them. It's not much of a work anyway and you can have peace of mind. If you want some more info/pointers etc. do adv. search for under my username. I've had some good doubts when doing this job and respected forum members here helped a great deal! It might be beneficial to you.
Last edited by tester123; 11-09-2013 at 09:44 AM.
11-17-2013, 04:31 AM
#12
It was the water pump.. Good call. The water pump bearing was a mess, I'm lucky that it didn't rip up the timing belt.
I tor it down and did the TB/WP/Cam seals. I did find something interesting though, when I went to install the cam locks, the pass. side didn't seem to install correctly. In order to get it fully seated on the cam I had to rotate the crank about 6 or 7 deg beyond TDC, then the drivers side wouldn't fit right. Looking at it closely at TDC everything but the pass. intake cam looked ok. The exhaust cam lob (just behind where the lock installs) was pointing in the right direction, but the intake was lobe looked like it was retarded about 10 deg. With the carank locked and the driver side cam lock secured, I locked the pass side cam the best I could. After removing the TB I snugged the intake cam pulley (pass side) loosened the cam lock and moved the intake cam slightly and the cam lock fell into place.
I finished up everything, replaced the PS pump too, and wondered what barrage of codes I was going to get when I fired it up.
I'm happy to report NONE!!! My Audi likes me again.. After a few test drives no leaks and it's running great. Not sure if it was the piece of crap Corolla (2012) rental I was driving for a week, but it does seem to have a little better acceleration and runs smoother than before.
Thanks to the great DYI in the tech articles (thank you by the way), the 3.0 timing belt "horror" wasn't bad at all. The hardest part was getting the power steering bracket bolt ( the one in the back) out, after that it was enjoyable. Use the right tools, take your time and understand what you are doing , and it's no more difficult than any othe TB that I've done.
It did get me a little upset that I paid an Indy $2,400 to do this job a year ago and not only did the WP prematurely fail at 50k, but he didn't question or fix the cam timing! If you want something done right , do it yourself!!
Thanks Again for the replies, and advise.
Paul
I tor it down and did the TB/WP/Cam seals. I did find something interesting though, when I went to install the cam locks, the pass. side didn't seem to install correctly. In order to get it fully seated on the cam I had to rotate the crank about 6 or 7 deg beyond TDC, then the drivers side wouldn't fit right. Looking at it closely at TDC everything but the pass. intake cam looked ok. The exhaust cam lob (just behind where the lock installs) was pointing in the right direction, but the intake was lobe looked like it was retarded about 10 deg. With the carank locked and the driver side cam lock secured, I locked the pass side cam the best I could. After removing the TB I snugged the intake cam pulley (pass side) loosened the cam lock and moved the intake cam slightly and the cam lock fell into place.
I finished up everything, replaced the PS pump too, and wondered what barrage of codes I was going to get when I fired it up.
I'm happy to report NONE!!! My Audi likes me again.. After a few test drives no leaks and it's running great. Not sure if it was the piece of crap Corolla (2012) rental I was driving for a week, but it does seem to have a little better acceleration and runs smoother than before.
Thanks to the great DYI in the tech articles (thank you by the way), the 3.0 timing belt "horror" wasn't bad at all. The hardest part was getting the power steering bracket bolt ( the one in the back) out, after that it was enjoyable. Use the right tools, take your time and understand what you are doing , and it's no more difficult than any othe TB that I've done.
It did get me a little upset that I paid an Indy $2,400 to do this job a year ago and not only did the WP prematurely fail at 50k, but he didn't question or fix the cam timing! If you want something done right , do it yourself!!
Thanks Again for the replies, and advise.
Paul
11-17-2013, 08:34 AM
#13
AudiWorld Member
Wow! 4D4 was right about the water pump.
I am glad you got your 3.0 up and running again. Do you happen to know what brand did they use for the WP? Is it genuine from Audi or some aftermarket brand?
Some photos would be nice, I'm just curious to see how it has failed... and what TB kit did you put in just now?
I am glad you got your 3.0 up and running again. Do you happen to know what brand did they use for the WP? Is it genuine from Audi or some aftermarket brand?
Some photos would be nice, I'm just curious to see how it has failed... and what TB kit did you put in just now?
11-17-2013, 10:45 AM
#14
Not sure what brand it was but here is the pic. Its suppose to be OE according to the indy, I requested OE thats why they charged so much, but I dont see any circles on this pump!
The bearing failed, if you look close (compare the top to the bottom) you can see the angle of the impeller to the housing because of the bearing failure. There is about an 8th of an inch of play! If any one can figure out the brand from the p/n, I'd like to know. (edit) Looking closely at the pulley, I believe that it is a GEBA pump..
I used a kit from Blauparts (the enhanced kit) and it came with a Graf pump.
The bearing failed, if you look close (compare the top to the bottom) you can see the angle of the impeller to the housing because of the bearing failure. There is about an 8th of an inch of play! If any one can figure out the brand from the p/n, I'd like to know. (edit) Looking closely at the pulley, I believe that it is a GEBA pump..
I used a kit from Blauparts (the enhanced kit) and it came with a Graf pump.
Last edited by f29pc; 11-17-2013 at 12:47 PM.
11-17-2013, 11:38 AM
#15
AudiWorld Super User
Good job on getting going, a water pump is quite cheap really.
I was a bit confused on your timing though. After you got your cam locks on did you pop the pulleys and retention your belt? I mean you were 99 % of the way there.
The ideology is that you tension the belt with the pulleys free of the cams so they can move with the belt tension,once you have it set, you tighten your pulleys with the correct tension against the locked cams and you are good to go.
Sounds like a very good project all around. Congrats. You got very lucky that water pump didn't seize, it's all tears after that.
I was a bit confused on your timing though. After you got your cam locks on did you pop the pulleys and retention your belt? I mean you were 99 % of the way there.
The ideology is that you tension the belt with the pulleys free of the cams so they can move with the belt tension,once you have it set, you tighten your pulleys with the correct tension against the locked cams and you are good to go.
Sounds like a very good project all around. Congrats. You got very lucky that water pump didn't seize, it's all tears after that.
11-17-2013, 12:42 PM
#16
I snugged up the pulley on the intake cam after the belt was off so I could rotate the cam slightly clockwise so the cam lock would drop in, then I tightened the cam lock and loosened the pulley again before tentioning the belt. All 4 pulleys were free when I retentioned the belt.
11-17-2013, 04:35 PM
#17
AudiWorld Member
Not sure what brand it was but here is the pic. Its suppose to be OE according to the indy, I requested OE thats why they charged so much, but I dont see any circles on this pump!
The bearing failed, if you look close (compare the top to the bottom) you can see the angle of the impeller to the housing because of the bearing failure. There is about an 8th of an inch of play! If any one can figure out the brand from the p/n, I'd like to know. (edit) Looking closely at the pulley, I believe that it is a GEBA pump..
I used a kit from Blauparts (the enhanced kit) and it came with a Graf pump.
The bearing failed, if you look close (compare the top to the bottom) you can see the angle of the impeller to the housing because of the bearing failure. There is about an 8th of an inch of play! If any one can figure out the brand from the p/n, I'd like to know. (edit) Looking closely at the pulley, I believe that it is a GEBA pump..
I used a kit from Blauparts (the enhanced kit) and it came with a Graf pump.
That's definitely not a genuine 3.0 water pump. The genuine one has Audi logo by the part number and made by GPM I believe. If it's the re-manufacture one (with part number ending X) it would have a GPM stamp with recycle mark on it.
You're really lucky that you caught the problem in time. Did your car ever get overheated?
Otherwise, congratulations on getting it back on the road!
11-17-2013, 04:52 PM
#18
AudiWorld Super User
I snugged up the pulley on the intake cam after the belt was off so I could rotate the cam slightly clockwise so the cam lock would drop in, then I tightened the cam lock and loosened the pulley again before tentioning the belt. All 4 pulleys were free when I retentioned the belt.
11-17-2013, 05:27 PM
#19
AudiWorld Super User
I snugged up the pulley on the intake cam after the belt was off so I could rotate the cam slightly clockwise so the cam lock would drop in, then I tightened the cam lock and loosened the pulley again before tentioning the belt. All 4 pulleys were free when I retentioned the belt.
11-17-2013, 08:29 PM
#20
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