derekt75

Tesla is paying 5% interest when the cost of money is much less than 5%. The loan to Tesla is helping the government's debt right now. Strictly financially, electric car companies as a class might not have been a great investment, and future energy investment as a class including Solyndra and A123 is probably a financial loss for the government, true. but Tesla has been a financial winner for the USA.

Musk claims that Tesla would have made it without the federal loan, but would have failed without investment from Daimler Benz. up to you whether or not you believe that.

If I buy the Tesla, I will thank you for your part of the $7500 tax credit. :-)

but anyway, the loan is in the past and the tax credit is still here, and I need to make the best decision for me given the current state of things.

The funny thing is that I think many folks on the TeslaMotorsClub forum got tired of me defending the S6. Now I've gotten two forums tired of me.

KarKid

I'd consider a Tesla as a second car too, not as a primary family vehicle. A recent event, battery maker a123 filed for bankruptcy. Toyota (even Audi and bmwI think) have announced that they are scaling back electric vehicles productions. Sure it's a market driven decision. I sure hope Tesla has way to survive through this as they may be the only one out there with full electric vehicles. Just my 0.02!

KarKid

Forgot about Nissan Leaf. Tesla has trouble delivering more cars yet there are plenty Leaf in dealer lots. Yes, there are not in the same class as Tesla but same full electric technology.

MileHighJC

derekt75, reading your post, I would guess that your decision is already 90+% made. Is that correct?

I think the S is a very interesting car. I would love to take one for a drive, I would guess that I would smile a lot. Having said that, an electric car (not just the S) is not for me - at least not yet.

• Range is far too short for me to consider as a primary vehicle. It might be ok if it were only to be a commuter or a "fun" car to be driven relatively short distances. I just returned from a two day road trip of 1723 miles - not possible in an electric. While this is not something I do every day, it is a capability I require of my car.
• Energy savings is an interesting discussion, but more interesting to me is the total cost of ownership for a comparable time period and mileage including energy costs (gas or electric). Since I tend to keep cars for extended periods of time (I hate taking the brunt of depreciation for ownership for 3-4 years). My last Audi I had for 15 years, and it has been passed to my son now. For an electric, I understand the replacement cost of the batteries can be quite high, and assuming that were to be needed within say a 12 year 120,000 mile window then I would want to consider that cost. I looked at TCO for my A6, and while it is fairly expensive I suspect the Tesla would be more.
• Readily available service/support - for you it sounds like Tesla is very close, and if your intent is to use the car mostly locally, it is probably a non issue for you. For me, I would expect that it would be inconvenient at best. You may be right that local shops may be able to service many items, but parts availability outside of the dealer will still be an issue as it is a low volume vehicle. I would expect that almost no parts would be stocked, so a custom order would be required in most situations. Ive found this to be an issue at times even with my old A4.
• Stability of the manufacturer - Audi has been around for a long time, and I would expect them to continue to be there far longer than my ownership window. Tesla is on the leading edge, and at least IMHO have a much higher risk profile. Should anything happen to the company (including perhaps the termination of the tax credit and any associated impact to sales/profitability) there is an associated risk that parts will become increasingly hard to find.

Net, while I really enjoy being a technology early adopter Im not ready to take the risk of this big ticket item, especially given that it doesnt meet one of my basic requirements (range). Now... If I was Jay Leno, and could have the car as a collectors item, I would be all over it.

Back to my opening question - if you have really made a decision then it really doesnt matter what a bunch of Audi enthusiasts think of it - you are not likely to get a lot of decision confirmation from this group especially given that this is a C7 forum. Most of us already have spent the $$$ on a good old fashioned gasoline powered car. If you have not yet made the decision, then you have a lot of counterpoint to what you might find in the Tesla forum... and all I can say is good luck with the decision!

jc

derekt75

Yeah, it's a good point. I don't consider myself an early adopter. I was very late to get a cell phone. I was late to get a smart phone.

I did buy a PS3 with BluRay for Christmas 2006 before it was clear to most that HD-DVD had lost.

I have solar panels on my roof, which is somewhat early adopter-ish.

but on the flip side:
when I bought the PS3, I was confident Sony/Blu-Ray would eventually win. I also believed that Sony was not releasing a buggy product like the 1st iPhone or early Treos.

SolarCity is under contract to maintain the panels on my roof, and if they don't generate the guaranteed electricity, they're under contract to pay me. It's possible that SolarCity will go belly up and nobody will buy them, but I think it's unlikely. So I think that the solar on my roof is a rather safe investment.


A Car is a much more complicated piece of machinery than a solar panel. and as many here have noted, it's a much bigger investment than a phone or Blu-ray player. If there's some fatal flaw in Tesla's battery technology, I'll lose my shirt. That does bother me. and there are surely some kinks that Tesla hasn't worked through yet. After a year of driving over bumps, is something on the Tesla going to be rattling?
That would also bother me.


It's just a bit sad for me. For the last year, I've been looking forward to driving in the carpool lane (saving me a whopping 2 minutes per week on my reverse commute) and not having to go to a gas station (saving me 5-10 minutes per week).

Instead I'll need to look forward to adaptive cruise control and parking assist. not nearly as exciting. but safer. :-/

Who would have thought that an S6 would be the less exciting of two cars? :-)

derekt75

No I haven't made my decision, although I might be leaning toward the S6.

I'm going to try to drive an M5 and C63 this weekend.
I drove a Genesis last week and that was a waste of time. The poor sales guy didn't understand how I could be so disappointed in its performance, but I had just driven a Model S and an S6.

A 300 mile range is sufficient for me. Once or twice a year, it won't be sufficient to get me where I want and back, and at that point I'll take the wife's Lexus. If the new car was going to be the only car in the family, I'd get a gasoline car, no question.

Garissimo

I don't think anyone is upset with you here. It's an interesting comparison.

I think the Tesla S is a brilliant future looking product but as someone else mentioned, I wouldn't have one as my only car . It's still on the heavy side compared to the S6 (4700lbs vs. 4100lb) although a lot of it is in the undercarriage battery tray. I'm not sold on the jumbo iPad control center vs. traditional switchgear, and charging network and charge times limit where you can safely venture with it. But I see the tide starting to change and can picture myself in a pure electric car within the decade.

As far as the comments about Tesla being taxpayer bankrolled, I say true, but so what? How much bailout money did GM and Ford get? How much has the F-22 Raptor program cost? The Tesla money is a pittance in comparison and has the potential to bring about a paradigm shift.

snagitseven

Just for the record, GM and Chrysler took TARP funds (much of which has been paid back and some that will likely be lost) but Ford took none.

derekt75

yeah, the weight in the battery tray results in a 16.5" CG height compared to 19" on most fast cars (like the S6). The S6 doesn't have much body roll, but the Model S should have less. Both have adaptive air suspensions.

GermanGarage

Financial winner? Uh... will let it go.

You are welcome. (I think.)

Who is tired? I love this conversation. Get the S6, and oh, BTW, be very excited. It is an amazing product. Light years ahead of other cars. The electric car will age quickly in terms of excitement, the S6 has legs....