S5 vs. 335i vs. G37 comparo over at Motive!!
08-16-2007, 10:42 AM
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S5 vs. 335i vs. G37 comparo over at Motive!!
<center><img src="http://www.motivemagazine.com/emAlbum/albums/Features/Versus/2007%20BMW%20335i,%202008%20Audi%20S5%20and%202008 %20Infiniti%20G37/audi-s5-bmw-335i-infiniti-g37-2008-comparison-117.jpg"></center><p>
Great test and even better pics!!
I'm really warming up to this on-line mag!
Great job George!
Click the link at the bottom to go to the current issue.
=====================================
THE LION, THE WITCH, AND THE WARDROBE
Don't be fooled by the title - this isn't the story about Peter, Susan, Edmund, and Lucy venturing to a mythical land of fauns and Turkish delight. It doesn't draw parallels to any major religion, either, unless of course you're religious for the roundel, a follower of the four rings, or an idolizer of Infinitis. If that disappoints you, take comfort in the fact that this is a story of resurrection; a second coming of the sports-coupe showdown that captivated the automotive world in the closing months of 2002, when the all-new Infiniti G35 launched a salvo toward Bavaria. "Is the prophecy true?" the enthusiast world asked. "Can this newcomer from Japan defeat our beloved 3-series?" But that round missed, and the BMW has enjoyed another five years with the crown.
Revenge is a dish best served full of horsepower, which brings us to the Tire Rack's testing facility in South Bend, Indiana, not only for Infiniti's high-horsepower return, but for the arrival of another muscular model seeking some of BMW's sweet sports coupe pie - Audi's S5. The company's track provides a neutral ground for the BMW 335i (up 75 horsepower from the previous-generation 330Ci) and the Infiniti G37 (up 70 horsepower from the original G35) to fight once again, with the S5's burly V-8 here to crash the party. The V-6-powered A5 was considered for the test, but that car's softer suspension and lackluster engine were deemed unsuitable for the comparison, despite the A5's more competitive price. Indeed, the horsepower spread between these three is only 54 before factoring in the common belief that the BMW's official rating of 300 hp is highly underrated. And besides, both the Infiniti and BMW are believed to exude performance and luxury beyond each car's price tag, so the S5 will put that notion to the test. With these two new suitors coming to market this fall, could BMW's reign be over?
The most recent 3-series coupe - the E92 to insiders - came out last fall, but its looks are still a fiery topic between barstools. Awkwardly flared to some, the new coupe is nevertheless a major stylistic departure from the more subdued 3-series sedan. At any speed, it seems to be moving along quickly but graciously, its "angel eye" driving lights screaming, "Get out of my way!" to lesser-performing commuter cars. The interior -shared with the sedan - is all business, too. Visibility is excellent through the 335i's vintage-feeling greenhouse, as its low window sills, low cowl, and commanding seating position set the driving experience apart from the blindspot-heavy, high-beltlined world of modern automobiles. Without the optional but unpopular iDrive cluttering up the dash and console, the controls are intuitive, while the materials throughout the cabin look and feel soft and familiar, save the cheap-looking polished gearshift and steering wheel trim.
Infiniti counters the BMW's evolutionary interior with one that's decidedly modern and Japanese. Inside the G37, there's Washi-paper textured metal trim, a large media/climate screen, and purple lighting fit for a Roppongi night club. Navigation is optional, but unlike in the BMW, the display screen comes whether or not you pony up for the maps. Noise and vibration levels are low: The old car's shifter would shake like a fork in a garbage disposal, but the new one is as still and silent as a post. As a whole, the G37's cabin is quieter than the G35's, which is disappointing only because the new car's engine sounds so great. Alas, there's nothing but a faint hum from the rear of the car - unless, of course, you've got the optional Bose "studio on wheels" 11-speaker surround sound system cranked up high.
Outside, the G37's design is alive with complex curves: The fenders sweep back over the optional 19-inch wheels and the peaked roof flows into the trunk. The G37's rear, though, negates some of the car's elegance, with a tall, flat bumper that makes the G look like it's always under braking.
Walter de'Silva penned the S5 to do just the opposite - to always be in motion. The thin strips of white LEDs under the headlights give the car a spiritual connection to the R8 supercar, and the S5 could be mistaken for an Aston Martin from the rear. De'Silva has called the S5 his most beautiful design ever, and who are we to argue?
As in the Infiniti, the Audi's cabin features high-end audio equipment. The optional 14-speaker system comes from Bang & Olufsen, whose name can also be found on speakers in the S8 and R8. The radio is hardly the high point of the S5's interior, though. Our German-spec tester sported red, leather-wrapped Recaros with matching red stitching on the black leather steering wheel and shifter boot. The only disappointing detail inside is the moonroof: It's so large that it sacrifices its ability to slide open - it only tilts. Still, the S5's cabin is more livable than most Manhattan apartments.
The "S" badge means performance, too. The sport-suspended S5 rides on an all-new chassis that will underpin the next A4 and S4. Hearing the cries of enthusiasts, Audi engineers have moved the front wheels forward and the engine back in an effort to dial down the current A4's inherent understeer. They still haven't shoved the wheels out to the corners a la BMW, though. At 182.5 inches long, the S5 has about two inches on the 335i, yet the 108.3-inch wheelbase is a half-inch shorter. The S5's double-wishbone front/multilink rear suspension isn't BMW-taut either. Poke the 4.2-liter, 354-hp, direct-injection V-8 and the front end will rise up like a 1969 Plymouth Road Runner. On the track, the suspension feels soft and the car leans hard into corners. The steering is light and more prone to kick back than it is to communicate, disconnecting the driver from the action. The S5's power and torque advantages allow it to keep pace with the other two cars, but the experience is less involving. Just vaguely point the car, mash the throttle, and it goes.
The S5 is more at home on the highway, where it can sit in sixth gear and rely on a meaty torque plateau to pass other cars with little more effort than a twitch of the right foot. Here, the car's more forgiving chassis is a boon, and the S5's cozy cabin can be fully appreciated. That said, great joy comes from lowering the windows on occasion, letting in a flood of the V-8's church organ-like fourth-order harmonic overtones as the transmission sings through the choruses of third, fourth, and fifth gear.
The G37 makes a great noise, too, as do all cars equipped with Nissan's VQ-series engines. This new car uses a higher-displacement, 3.7-liter version of that V-6, with new variable valve event and lift (VVEL) technology that fattens up the torque curve and gives 330 peak horsepower, the most ever for this engine family. Like BMW's Valvetronic system, VVEL completely eliminates a throttle plate and varies engine speed by dynamically changing valve lift. But power isn't as linear as the BMW twin-turbo straight 6, and the Infiniti engine lacks the low-end grunt of the Audi V-8. Nevertheless, the V-6 is peaky and lively, making the car feel quickest in this group. Against the clock, however, it delivered the slowest quarter-mile time of 14.293 seconds (the 335i crossed the line in 13.693, with the Audi close behind at 13.801).
Indeed, the G37 is a bit of a paradox. It feels light and quick through corners, with responsive steering and a fast-acting suspension. Both German cars feel planted and heavy, maybe even a bit ponderous by comparison. This despite the fact that its 3668-pound curb weight makes it 75 pounds heavier than the S5 (Audiphiles rejoice! Your car isn't the heaviest!) and 93 pounds portlier than the 335i. Push hard, though, and the weight makes itself known.
Unlike the outgoing G35, which was well known for its drift-king oversteer, the G37 is - blame it on the lawyers - prone to understeer. If you throw the car into a corner with any throttle input, the front tires bark like guard dogs. The car requires patience to achieve any manner of hooliganism; ease into a corner, let the front bite down, then get back on the throttle and the rear wheels will set themselves free.
The BMW 335i won't make you wait. The chassis defines neutrality, with suspension components that fairly say, "Trust me, I've been practicing this routine since the '80s." Everything - the well-weighted steering, the positive shifter, the lag-free twin-turbocharged six - works together in perfect consonance. While the engine did run a bit on the warm side, we didn't experience the overheating issues that have been reported elsewhere. The car is as at home on the track as it is on the highways of exurbia - smooth, predictable, and composed in any situation. But you pay for it: The base price for a 335i coupe is $40,800, and that doesn't include a limited-slip option. A locking diff would make the 335i even more of a track predator.
Pricing for the 2008 Audi S5 hasn't been announced yet, but when it hits American streets in November, it should cost about $15,000 more than the base 335i. That would make it one very expensive sports coupe, but after driving the Audi, it becomes apparent that the S5 is aimed at a different market. It's more of a grand tourer, in a class with the BMW 650i and Jaguar XK. By those standards, this gorgeous Audi is quite a deal. It isn't meant for the tight corners the 335i and G37 call home, and its mission isn't to show that punk kid in the Civic Si why he's lower on the performance food chain. The S5 minds its own business, cruising graciously and effortlessly. In the world of automotive fantasy, the S5 is the wardrobe of the group. It's the intricate work of a proud designer, with an interior full of tailored and elegant materials. At the same time, the S5 feels as heavy and imposing as, well, a fine piece of furniture.
That makes the Infiniti G37 the lion of the group, announcing its presence with an angry exhaust roar. The car's brute force and energy make it seem far lighter than it really is. It is far more refined than the G35 it replaces, but it still possesses some of the coarseness that makes it intimidating. Value also works in the G37's favor. A base-model car starts at $34,250, which is not only $6550 cheaper than a 335i, it undercuts the 240-hp 328i by a thousand dollars, too. If price-per-horsepower is important to you, the G37 is hard to beat, but the BMW still nails more intangibles.
BMW's ability to magically keep the 3-series ahead of the competition makes the 335i the witch. The company hasn't made a turbocharged gasoline engine since the Bee Gees were on the charts, yet that didn't keep this generation of BMW engineers from virtually eliminating turbo lag on their first try. The driver's seat is always inviting, and sitting in it gives you a direct link to the car's soul. There's considerable price premium over the Infiniti, but if you have the means, you won't regret it. Just think of at $6550 as an investment into five generations of engineering perfection. This is no Narnia. In the chronicles of sports coupes, the witch is still on top.
Great test and even better pics!!
I'm really warming up to this on-line mag!
Great job George!
Click the link at the bottom to go to the current issue.
=====================================
THE LION, THE WITCH, AND THE WARDROBE
Don't be fooled by the title - this isn't the story about Peter, Susan, Edmund, and Lucy venturing to a mythical land of fauns and Turkish delight. It doesn't draw parallels to any major religion, either, unless of course you're religious for the roundel, a follower of the four rings, or an idolizer of Infinitis. If that disappoints you, take comfort in the fact that this is a story of resurrection; a second coming of the sports-coupe showdown that captivated the automotive world in the closing months of 2002, when the all-new Infiniti G35 launched a salvo toward Bavaria. "Is the prophecy true?" the enthusiast world asked. "Can this newcomer from Japan defeat our beloved 3-series?" But that round missed, and the BMW has enjoyed another five years with the crown.
Revenge is a dish best served full of horsepower, which brings us to the Tire Rack's testing facility in South Bend, Indiana, not only for Infiniti's high-horsepower return, but for the arrival of another muscular model seeking some of BMW's sweet sports coupe pie - Audi's S5. The company's track provides a neutral ground for the BMW 335i (up 75 horsepower from the previous-generation 330Ci) and the Infiniti G37 (up 70 horsepower from the original G35) to fight once again, with the S5's burly V-8 here to crash the party. The V-6-powered A5 was considered for the test, but that car's softer suspension and lackluster engine were deemed unsuitable for the comparison, despite the A5's more competitive price. Indeed, the horsepower spread between these three is only 54 before factoring in the common belief that the BMW's official rating of 300 hp is highly underrated. And besides, both the Infiniti and BMW are believed to exude performance and luxury beyond each car's price tag, so the S5 will put that notion to the test. With these two new suitors coming to market this fall, could BMW's reign be over?
The most recent 3-series coupe - the E92 to insiders - came out last fall, but its looks are still a fiery topic between barstools. Awkwardly flared to some, the new coupe is nevertheless a major stylistic departure from the more subdued 3-series sedan. At any speed, it seems to be moving along quickly but graciously, its "angel eye" driving lights screaming, "Get out of my way!" to lesser-performing commuter cars. The interior -shared with the sedan - is all business, too. Visibility is excellent through the 335i's vintage-feeling greenhouse, as its low window sills, low cowl, and commanding seating position set the driving experience apart from the blindspot-heavy, high-beltlined world of modern automobiles. Without the optional but unpopular iDrive cluttering up the dash and console, the controls are intuitive, while the materials throughout the cabin look and feel soft and familiar, save the cheap-looking polished gearshift and steering wheel trim.
Infiniti counters the BMW's evolutionary interior with one that's decidedly modern and Japanese. Inside the G37, there's Washi-paper textured metal trim, a large media/climate screen, and purple lighting fit for a Roppongi night club. Navigation is optional, but unlike in the BMW, the display screen comes whether or not you pony up for the maps. Noise and vibration levels are low: The old car's shifter would shake like a fork in a garbage disposal, but the new one is as still and silent as a post. As a whole, the G37's cabin is quieter than the G35's, which is disappointing only because the new car's engine sounds so great. Alas, there's nothing but a faint hum from the rear of the car - unless, of course, you've got the optional Bose "studio on wheels" 11-speaker surround sound system cranked up high.
Outside, the G37's design is alive with complex curves: The fenders sweep back over the optional 19-inch wheels and the peaked roof flows into the trunk. The G37's rear, though, negates some of the car's elegance, with a tall, flat bumper that makes the G look like it's always under braking.
Walter de'Silva penned the S5 to do just the opposite - to always be in motion. The thin strips of white LEDs under the headlights give the car a spiritual connection to the R8 supercar, and the S5 could be mistaken for an Aston Martin from the rear. De'Silva has called the S5 his most beautiful design ever, and who are we to argue?
As in the Infiniti, the Audi's cabin features high-end audio equipment. The optional 14-speaker system comes from Bang & Olufsen, whose name can also be found on speakers in the S8 and R8. The radio is hardly the high point of the S5's interior, though. Our German-spec tester sported red, leather-wrapped Recaros with matching red stitching on the black leather steering wheel and shifter boot. The only disappointing detail inside is the moonroof: It's so large that it sacrifices its ability to slide open - it only tilts. Still, the S5's cabin is more livable than most Manhattan apartments.
The "S" badge means performance, too. The sport-suspended S5 rides on an all-new chassis that will underpin the next A4 and S4. Hearing the cries of enthusiasts, Audi engineers have moved the front wheels forward and the engine back in an effort to dial down the current A4's inherent understeer. They still haven't shoved the wheels out to the corners a la BMW, though. At 182.5 inches long, the S5 has about two inches on the 335i, yet the 108.3-inch wheelbase is a half-inch shorter. The S5's double-wishbone front/multilink rear suspension isn't BMW-taut either. Poke the 4.2-liter, 354-hp, direct-injection V-8 and the front end will rise up like a 1969 Plymouth Road Runner. On the track, the suspension feels soft and the car leans hard into corners. The steering is light and more prone to kick back than it is to communicate, disconnecting the driver from the action. The S5's power and torque advantages allow it to keep pace with the other two cars, but the experience is less involving. Just vaguely point the car, mash the throttle, and it goes.
The S5 is more at home on the highway, where it can sit in sixth gear and rely on a meaty torque plateau to pass other cars with little more effort than a twitch of the right foot. Here, the car's more forgiving chassis is a boon, and the S5's cozy cabin can be fully appreciated. That said, great joy comes from lowering the windows on occasion, letting in a flood of the V-8's church organ-like fourth-order harmonic overtones as the transmission sings through the choruses of third, fourth, and fifth gear.
The G37 makes a great noise, too, as do all cars equipped with Nissan's VQ-series engines. This new car uses a higher-displacement, 3.7-liter version of that V-6, with new variable valve event and lift (VVEL) technology that fattens up the torque curve and gives 330 peak horsepower, the most ever for this engine family. Like BMW's Valvetronic system, VVEL completely eliminates a throttle plate and varies engine speed by dynamically changing valve lift. But power isn't as linear as the BMW twin-turbo straight 6, and the Infiniti engine lacks the low-end grunt of the Audi V-8. Nevertheless, the V-6 is peaky and lively, making the car feel quickest in this group. Against the clock, however, it delivered the slowest quarter-mile time of 14.293 seconds (the 335i crossed the line in 13.693, with the Audi close behind at 13.801).
Indeed, the G37 is a bit of a paradox. It feels light and quick through corners, with responsive steering and a fast-acting suspension. Both German cars feel planted and heavy, maybe even a bit ponderous by comparison. This despite the fact that its 3668-pound curb weight makes it 75 pounds heavier than the S5 (Audiphiles rejoice! Your car isn't the heaviest!) and 93 pounds portlier than the 335i. Push hard, though, and the weight makes itself known.
Unlike the outgoing G35, which was well known for its drift-king oversteer, the G37 is - blame it on the lawyers - prone to understeer. If you throw the car into a corner with any throttle input, the front tires bark like guard dogs. The car requires patience to achieve any manner of hooliganism; ease into a corner, let the front bite down, then get back on the throttle and the rear wheels will set themselves free.
The BMW 335i won't make you wait. The chassis defines neutrality, with suspension components that fairly say, "Trust me, I've been practicing this routine since the '80s." Everything - the well-weighted steering, the positive shifter, the lag-free twin-turbocharged six - works together in perfect consonance. While the engine did run a bit on the warm side, we didn't experience the overheating issues that have been reported elsewhere. The car is as at home on the track as it is on the highways of exurbia - smooth, predictable, and composed in any situation. But you pay for it: The base price for a 335i coupe is $40,800, and that doesn't include a limited-slip option. A locking diff would make the 335i even more of a track predator.
Pricing for the 2008 Audi S5 hasn't been announced yet, but when it hits American streets in November, it should cost about $15,000 more than the base 335i. That would make it one very expensive sports coupe, but after driving the Audi, it becomes apparent that the S5 is aimed at a different market. It's more of a grand tourer, in a class with the BMW 650i and Jaguar XK. By those standards, this gorgeous Audi is quite a deal. It isn't meant for the tight corners the 335i and G37 call home, and its mission isn't to show that punk kid in the Civic Si why he's lower on the performance food chain. The S5 minds its own business, cruising graciously and effortlessly. In the world of automotive fantasy, the S5 is the wardrobe of the group. It's the intricate work of a proud designer, with an interior full of tailored and elegant materials. At the same time, the S5 feels as heavy and imposing as, well, a fine piece of furniture.
That makes the Infiniti G37 the lion of the group, announcing its presence with an angry exhaust roar. The car's brute force and energy make it seem far lighter than it really is. It is far more refined than the G35 it replaces, but it still possesses some of the coarseness that makes it intimidating. Value also works in the G37's favor. A base-model car starts at $34,250, which is not only $6550 cheaper than a 335i, it undercuts the 240-hp 328i by a thousand dollars, too. If price-per-horsepower is important to you, the G37 is hard to beat, but the BMW still nails more intangibles.
BMW's ability to magically keep the 3-series ahead of the competition makes the 335i the witch. The company hasn't made a turbocharged gasoline engine since the Bee Gees were on the charts, yet that didn't keep this generation of BMW engineers from virtually eliminating turbo lag on their first try. The driver's seat is always inviting, and sitting in it gives you a direct link to the car's soul. There's considerable price premium over the Infiniti, but if you have the means, you won't regret it. Just think of at $6550 as an investment into five generations of engineering perfection. This is no Narnia. In the chronicles of sports coupes, the witch is still on top.
08-16-2007, 11:24 AM
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I think the S5 is meant to be more of a GT car . TT might have been better comparo choice here.
Audi has pretty much said this in several interviews.
They need to be able to differentiate this new coupe from their existing coupe (TT).
I think the A5/S5 is meant more to be a sporty touring car. Audi has said that this is the reason they went with conventional shocks as opposed to the Magnetic Ride set-up the TT and R8 have.
The S5 would do much better being compared to the XK or CLK in my opinion.
I guess we'll see how this shapes up out in the market...
They need to be able to differentiate this new coupe from their existing coupe (TT).
I think the A5/S5 is meant more to be a sporty touring car. Audi has said that this is the reason they went with conventional shocks as opposed to the Magnetic Ride set-up the TT and R8 have.
The S5 would do much better being compared to the XK or CLK in my opinion.
I guess we'll see how this shapes up out in the market...
08-16-2007, 11:30 AM
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Great pics in the gallery. Should have cleaned out the interior though before shooting.
Thanks for posting this, I think this is the first actual comparison I've read about that wasn't just speculation.
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08-16-2007, 11:48 AM
#8
he also glosses over the fact that the BMW ran hot
just because it didn't actually overheat. what kind of standard for reliability is that? do you really want to spend your $ on a car like that? I don't.
The only time I ever saw my 2.7t run hot was at 100+ MPH up a long steep hill on a 3 hour drive to Vegas in the middle of the desert in August (~110 degrees F). Could the 335i complete that drive? I doubt it.
The only time I ever saw my 2.7t run hot was at 100+ MPH up a long steep hill on a 3 hour drive to Vegas in the middle of the desert in August (~110 degrees F). Could the 335i complete that drive? I doubt it.
08-16-2007, 12:13 PM
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I expected more. Wonder if the guys at Motive were able to drive the S5 right...
Why is it that everyone else gets a low 13 second quarter mile time and these guys come along and get a high 13.8? This is the first test where the 335 was quicker. My conclusion is that the Motive guys suck at launching AWD.
08-16-2007, 12:23 PM
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Similar to Car & Driver and their "Lightening Lap" article.
They drove a bunch of cars around the track at VIR and the 335Ci was faster than the RS4. The 335 is a great car and all, but I really can't believe it's faster around a track than a RS4.
Now I'm not claiming to be a great driver by any stretch, but I suspect some of these guys don't excel in driving AWD performance vehicles.
Now I'm not claiming to be a great driver by any stretch, but I suspect some of these guys don't excel in driving AWD performance vehicles.