Installed the NAV+ (completed install last month, but never wrote about it.)
01-10-2004, 07:53 AM
#1
AudiWorld Super User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 7,900
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Installed the NAV+ (completed install last month, but never wrote about it.)
Price: Cost will vary from person to person, but for the headunit, the GPS antenna, and misc. wiring and connectors, and shipping, I paid about $1200.
For those looking to do the install, you will still need a VAG-COM and the maps disks.
Installation: No one else around me had first hand experience with the install, so this was sort of a DIYer. It took me about 10 hours to complete all the wiring work. Namely, because I'm **** about wiring, so I took the time to use bullet connectors and labelled EVERYTHING. The install is pretty straight forward, but definitely a pain. I think if I had to do the install, I could do it in half the time. Just be patient, don't rush, and follow the instructions and its easy.
Problems: So the biggest difficult, I had was trying to figure out why tracking wasn't working. I actually had to put the problem down and come back to it a week later, and the problem I had was related to a GALA signal. Apparently, the wire tap that I used did not break enough of the GALA signal wire to make contact. DOH!
The other problem I ran into was when I was updating the firmware on the NAV+. I had the engine off when I was doing the install, and the system recognized the disk and started to erase the firmware. But upon loading, it never moved an inch. I nearly shat in my pants for about two hours waiting for it to move a little bit on the progress bar, but it didn't. Turns out, all I needed to do was start the car. As soon as I figured this out, I went on a 15 minute drive because that's how long it takes to read and load the new firmware. PHEW!
Operation: The NAV+ is definitely very useful. It gives good and accurate directions. Tracking is good. It will automatically recalculate your destination direction if you make a wrong turn. Sometimes it can be a little stupid, but then again its certainly better than looking at a print out from mapquest or yahoo! maps.
Selecting destinations is not the easiest thing in the world, but it works. Its nearly impossible to program a direction while moving, so don't try, you'll cause an accident.
The NAV+ is able to find directions to restaurants, but I wish that it had better menu options to select a restaurant by name or category. You can select a restaurant by location or if you know the address. I wish the GPS would show banks/atms or at least an easy way to find them, but maybe there's a way to hack the CD to do so.
Is it worth the $1200? I think so. I would've paid for this as a factory option if I could. I don't have the TMC can-bus module, so I don't have the turn by turn directions in the instrument cluster. I may go that route eventually and would most likely upgrade the instrument cluster as well (maybe S4?). We'll see.
But otherwise, I think the NAV+ is great. The UI for the NAV+ could use some improvements, but it works. The only thing my NAV+ has for music is a radio. I am going to install the densionusa iPod car kit in the future, but I was just recently at MacWorld and they announced a new car kit to be released in 6 weeks. Instead of having to plug into both connectors of the 3G iPod, it only needs to interface with the docking port. (woot!) We'll have to wait and see.
The other problem I have with the radio is AM reception. Not only is the AM reception in intervals of 9 instead of 10 (i.e., you can get stations 927, 1503, 810 instead of 930, and 1500), but on the way to Tahoe the traffic reports come in on station 1610. The highest AM reception channel on the NAV+ is 1602, doh!.
Besides that small mishap, I'd still pay up to $2000 for this as a factory option.
For those looking to do the install, you will still need a VAG-COM and the maps disks.
Installation: No one else around me had first hand experience with the install, so this was sort of a DIYer. It took me about 10 hours to complete all the wiring work. Namely, because I'm **** about wiring, so I took the time to use bullet connectors and labelled EVERYTHING. The install is pretty straight forward, but definitely a pain. I think if I had to do the install, I could do it in half the time. Just be patient, don't rush, and follow the instructions and its easy.
Problems: So the biggest difficult, I had was trying to figure out why tracking wasn't working. I actually had to put the problem down and come back to it a week later, and the problem I had was related to a GALA signal. Apparently, the wire tap that I used did not break enough of the GALA signal wire to make contact. DOH!
The other problem I ran into was when I was updating the firmware on the NAV+. I had the engine off when I was doing the install, and the system recognized the disk and started to erase the firmware. But upon loading, it never moved an inch. I nearly shat in my pants for about two hours waiting for it to move a little bit on the progress bar, but it didn't. Turns out, all I needed to do was start the car. As soon as I figured this out, I went on a 15 minute drive because that's how long it takes to read and load the new firmware. PHEW!
Operation: The NAV+ is definitely very useful. It gives good and accurate directions. Tracking is good. It will automatically recalculate your destination direction if you make a wrong turn. Sometimes it can be a little stupid, but then again its certainly better than looking at a print out from mapquest or yahoo! maps.
Selecting destinations is not the easiest thing in the world, but it works. Its nearly impossible to program a direction while moving, so don't try, you'll cause an accident.
The NAV+ is able to find directions to restaurants, but I wish that it had better menu options to select a restaurant by name or category. You can select a restaurant by location or if you know the address. I wish the GPS would show banks/atms or at least an easy way to find them, but maybe there's a way to hack the CD to do so.
Is it worth the $1200? I think so. I would've paid for this as a factory option if I could. I don't have the TMC can-bus module, so I don't have the turn by turn directions in the instrument cluster. I may go that route eventually and would most likely upgrade the instrument cluster as well (maybe S4?). We'll see.
But otherwise, I think the NAV+ is great. The UI for the NAV+ could use some improvements, but it works. The only thing my NAV+ has for music is a radio. I am going to install the densionusa iPod car kit in the future, but I was just recently at MacWorld and they announced a new car kit to be released in 6 weeks. Instead of having to plug into both connectors of the 3G iPod, it only needs to interface with the docking port. (woot!) We'll have to wait and see.
The other problem I have with the radio is AM reception. Not only is the AM reception in intervals of 9 instead of 10 (i.e., you can get stations 927, 1503, 810 instead of 930, and 1500), but on the way to Tahoe the traffic reports come in on station 1610. The highest AM reception channel on the NAV+ is 1602, doh!.
Besides that small mishap, I'd still pay up to $2000 for this as a factory option.
01-10-2004, 08:08 AM
#5
Elder Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 11,729
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A couple of things...
It sounds like you pretty much get all the same info I get on normal nav. When I was in Germany, the German CDs had much more info on them, more eating places, gas stations and all that type stuff. The US cds don't have much on them at all. I wasn't sure what you meant by programing it when you were moving. I'm able to program mine with no prob.
Also on your channel spacing stuff, if you look close on the FM its different too.
Also on your channel spacing stuff, if you look close on the FM its different too.
01-10-2004, 08:10 AM
#6
AudiWorld Super User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 7,900
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FM intervals are done by .1 (US spec is .2), so no problems there. Reception is wierd sometimes
but I recently read something in the AudiNav Yahoo! group that explains this...
<I>Everybody is having trouble with the antennas all of the sudden.
You're the third person.
First off, for those that don't know. If your car has the diversity
antenna system, there are 4 FM antennas in the rear window of your
car. (For those with Avants, three are in the side window, one on
the roof). Each antenna goes to an antenna amp, so there are 4 of
those. Note that one of the antennas also does AM. The 4 antenna
amps feed a diversity switcher which is in the rear of the car. The
job of the diversity switcher is to pick the antenna with the
strongest signal, and feed that signal down the HF line, which is
the big connector plugged into the back of your radio/Nav. It's a
great idea, and probably gets around the fact that a rear window
really isn't the best antenna design.
OK, so that leave the little ZF connector. Audi calls this
the "intermediate frequency line", and calls the diversity switcher
the "change over box". Here's the official Audi line from the Audi
training manuals.
"The FM reception signals are consecutively supplied to the radio by
4 amplifiers, FM/AM and FM via the change-over box. The radio makes
a frequency adjustment a requests the change-over box via the
intermediate frequency line to utilize the appropriate aerial and
the highest reception signal."
So what's implied is without that line connected, the diversity
switcher will just be stuck on one antenna. I should mention I don't
know that I believe this. I think the diversity switcher probably is
always picking the strongest signal regardless of how you tune the
radio. It would just be a smart way to do it.
On the B6 A4's, the ZF connector does not fit, so "most" users have
just left it disconnected. I have only heard from one user who
thought their radio reception was not as good, though a very
knowledgeable user. I tried mine disconnected, and couldn't tell the
difference, but it could just be the amp left working was all I
needed.
I know I said in an earlier e-mail I couldn't remember if this line
had 5 volts or 12 volts. You measured 11.85, OK that's good, now we
know, so it outputs 12 volts.
There are also different diversity switchers. Some diversity
switchers (and antenna amps) get their power from this line. If you
disconnect it and your radio reception goes away, you have this kind
of switcher. Other diversity switchers have +12 volts feeding them
directly, so at least the amps will be powered without the line.
I don't know why it would work with the line disconnected, but not
connected. The other user that just hit this had even more
weirdness. His radio worked with the key off, it worked with the key
on, but would not work with the engine running, unless he unplugged
the ZF line. All very strange.
Bottom line, if it works with it off, leave it off. The "worst" that
could happen is it might be only using one antenna amp.
On the navigation tracking. Many have commented that it seems to lag
behind the car a bit. Actually it would be really scary if it was
ahead of where the car was wouldn't it? Being an idiot I actually
own about 5 GPS units. (Garmin Street Pilot III, Pocket PC with
Fortuna BlueTooth, another Garmin OEM sensor feeding a laptop, a
palm pilot based Nav Man, etc.)
I took a bunch of them out in my car at one point and compared them
to the Nav Plus. What I found was the actual GPS information (the
minutes degrees seconds thing you see with the compass) seemed
to "pretty much" track between them all.
Some comments.
1) Initially the Nav Plus seemed out from the others just a bit,
then I remembered the Nav Plus antenna is actually in the rear of
the car. Once I put all the others on the parcel shelf, they all
said about the same information.
2) Although the information ususally matched, the maps were
different. For the Nav Plus, it almost seems like instead of
the "center" of that circle being where your car is, it's actually
the "point" of the arrow. Combine that with the fact the antenna is
a few feet behind you and it doesn't "feel" right. You expect
the "point" to be the front of the car, when actually it's the back.
(even worse in the Avant, where it's right at the back.)
3) Some of you have commented that even if it did lag, it
should "catch up" when you stop. Maybe. Most of the other units had
some "jitter". Even with the car stopped, the pointer on the map
would move around somewhat. I notice the Nav really doesn't do that.
Combine that with the fact that the Nav Plus works like crap if your
GALA signal isn't there, and it leads me to believe (just a pure
guess) that they have some sort of "suppression" circuit in there.
If there is no GALA, the Nav assumes you are not moving, so "don't
move the arrow". This would also explain why users with a GALA
signal problem have such poor updating.
4) Don't forget the Nav Plus has a pretty amazing dead reckoning
circuit in it, based on two peizo angle of turn sensors, the reverse
light signal, and the GALA signal. If you want to see something
really cool, get your car out on the street, then disconnect your
GPS antenna. Now drive. Your Nav will still show you going down the
street, making turns, stopping for lights, etc. The compass still
works. Note you have to have your Gala set up absolutely perfectly
for this.
Almost all the time when users have had problems with the unit
updating in a reasonable manner, it's been a problem with the GALA
signal. You're on the right track, but it's going to be really
difficult to judge it just be using car position. The absolute best
way is (assuming you have a laptop) to use VagCom, connect to
Navigation - 37, go to measure blocks - 08, and look at group 006.
The first box says Left, the second should show your speed in km/h.
If while your driving, this matches your speedometer exactly (at all
speeds), it's set up perfectly.
I think Jon mentioned that the Nav "automatically adjusts" the tire
diameter. Not sure. I should mention that I have seen "weird
numbers" in the "hidden menu" where you can set the tire size, but
using VagCom it always came up with the number I entered. So, it
seems that perhaps the hidden menu and the programming in VagCom
don't always agree, though they do seem to be the same parameter.
Hope all that helps, and I'll ponder more what's going on with the
FM.
Later!
Dan</I>
<I>Everybody is having trouble with the antennas all of the sudden.
You're the third person.
First off, for those that don't know. If your car has the diversity
antenna system, there are 4 FM antennas in the rear window of your
car. (For those with Avants, three are in the side window, one on
the roof). Each antenna goes to an antenna amp, so there are 4 of
those. Note that one of the antennas also does AM. The 4 antenna
amps feed a diversity switcher which is in the rear of the car. The
job of the diversity switcher is to pick the antenna with the
strongest signal, and feed that signal down the HF line, which is
the big connector plugged into the back of your radio/Nav. It's a
great idea, and probably gets around the fact that a rear window
really isn't the best antenna design.
OK, so that leave the little ZF connector. Audi calls this
the "intermediate frequency line", and calls the diversity switcher
the "change over box". Here's the official Audi line from the Audi
training manuals.
"The FM reception signals are consecutively supplied to the radio by
4 amplifiers, FM/AM and FM via the change-over box. The radio makes
a frequency adjustment a requests the change-over box via the
intermediate frequency line to utilize the appropriate aerial and
the highest reception signal."
So what's implied is without that line connected, the diversity
switcher will just be stuck on one antenna. I should mention I don't
know that I believe this. I think the diversity switcher probably is
always picking the strongest signal regardless of how you tune the
radio. It would just be a smart way to do it.
On the B6 A4's, the ZF connector does not fit, so "most" users have
just left it disconnected. I have only heard from one user who
thought their radio reception was not as good, though a very
knowledgeable user. I tried mine disconnected, and couldn't tell the
difference, but it could just be the amp left working was all I
needed.
I know I said in an earlier e-mail I couldn't remember if this line
had 5 volts or 12 volts. You measured 11.85, OK that's good, now we
know, so it outputs 12 volts.
There are also different diversity switchers. Some diversity
switchers (and antenna amps) get their power from this line. If you
disconnect it and your radio reception goes away, you have this kind
of switcher. Other diversity switchers have +12 volts feeding them
directly, so at least the amps will be powered without the line.
I don't know why it would work with the line disconnected, but not
connected. The other user that just hit this had even more
weirdness. His radio worked with the key off, it worked with the key
on, but would not work with the engine running, unless he unplugged
the ZF line. All very strange.
Bottom line, if it works with it off, leave it off. The "worst" that
could happen is it might be only using one antenna amp.
On the navigation tracking. Many have commented that it seems to lag
behind the car a bit. Actually it would be really scary if it was
ahead of where the car was wouldn't it? Being an idiot I actually
own about 5 GPS units. (Garmin Street Pilot III, Pocket PC with
Fortuna BlueTooth, another Garmin OEM sensor feeding a laptop, a
palm pilot based Nav Man, etc.)
I took a bunch of them out in my car at one point and compared them
to the Nav Plus. What I found was the actual GPS information (the
minutes degrees seconds thing you see with the compass) seemed
to "pretty much" track between them all.
Some comments.
1) Initially the Nav Plus seemed out from the others just a bit,
then I remembered the Nav Plus antenna is actually in the rear of
the car. Once I put all the others on the parcel shelf, they all
said about the same information.
2) Although the information ususally matched, the maps were
different. For the Nav Plus, it almost seems like instead of
the "center" of that circle being where your car is, it's actually
the "point" of the arrow. Combine that with the fact the antenna is
a few feet behind you and it doesn't "feel" right. You expect
the "point" to be the front of the car, when actually it's the back.
(even worse in the Avant, where it's right at the back.)
3) Some of you have commented that even if it did lag, it
should "catch up" when you stop. Maybe. Most of the other units had
some "jitter". Even with the car stopped, the pointer on the map
would move around somewhat. I notice the Nav really doesn't do that.
Combine that with the fact that the Nav Plus works like crap if your
GALA signal isn't there, and it leads me to believe (just a pure
guess) that they have some sort of "suppression" circuit in there.
If there is no GALA, the Nav assumes you are not moving, so "don't
move the arrow". This would also explain why users with a GALA
signal problem have such poor updating.
4) Don't forget the Nav Plus has a pretty amazing dead reckoning
circuit in it, based on two peizo angle of turn sensors, the reverse
light signal, and the GALA signal. If you want to see something
really cool, get your car out on the street, then disconnect your
GPS antenna. Now drive. Your Nav will still show you going down the
street, making turns, stopping for lights, etc. The compass still
works. Note you have to have your Gala set up absolutely perfectly
for this.
Almost all the time when users have had problems with the unit
updating in a reasonable manner, it's been a problem with the GALA
signal. You're on the right track, but it's going to be really
difficult to judge it just be using car position. The absolute best
way is (assuming you have a laptop) to use VagCom, connect to
Navigation - 37, go to measure blocks - 08, and look at group 006.
The first box says Left, the second should show your speed in km/h.
If while your driving, this matches your speedometer exactly (at all
speeds), it's set up perfectly.
I think Jon mentioned that the Nav "automatically adjusts" the tire
diameter. Not sure. I should mention that I have seen "weird
numbers" in the "hidden menu" where you can set the tire size, but
using VagCom it always came up with the number I entered. So, it
seems that perhaps the hidden menu and the programming in VagCom
don't always agree, though they do seem to be the same parameter.
Hope all that helps, and I'll ponder more what's going on with the
FM.
Later!
Dan</I>
01-10-2004, 08:14 AM
#7
New Member
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 281
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Do you think it would be easier / doable to install NAV+ with an already existing nav?
I too think the NAV was worth it but don't have the nice full screen of the NAV+. If the price was right I probably would jump on the full screen view.
Trending Topics
01-10-2004, 08:14 AM
#8
AudiWorld Super User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 7,900
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The US CDs have gas stations, airports, restaurants, shopping centers, sports arenas (and more)...
My co-worker recently bought a B6 3.0 with US spec NAV, it the menus are almost identical. It gives practically the same options. Its really only missing the interactive map.
For the NAV+ you need to start at the radio to program the destination (namely, you don't have your eyes on the road), since your NAV is in the instrument cluster, you can still keep part of your vision on the road. Hence, IMO its dangerous to use while driving. Its not that it can't be done, its that I don't recommend it.
For the NAV+ you need to start at the radio to program the destination (namely, you don't have your eyes on the road), since your NAV is in the instrument cluster, you can still keep part of your vision on the road. Hence, IMO its dangerous to use while driving. Its not that it can't be done, its that I don't recommend it.
01-10-2004, 08:18 AM
#9
AudiWorld Super User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 7,900
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You could, but I don't think its worth it. You've already invested $2k into your NAV system.
none of the components in your existing NAV system are compatible with the NAV+.
Your radio/tape/CD changer gets replaced with a NAV+ w/radio only. The GPS mounting point is in the rear of the trunk, so you'll need to get an externsion and run that cable to the back of your radio head unit. You'll also need to do redo all the wiring.
The one thing you have going for you is that you already have the TMC can-bus module, so you'll be able to use that to send directions to the instrument cluster.
Your radio/tape/CD changer gets replaced with a NAV+ w/radio only. The GPS mounting point is in the rear of the trunk, so you'll need to get an externsion and run that cable to the back of your radio head unit. You'll also need to do redo all the wiring.
The one thing you have going for you is that you already have the TMC can-bus module, so you'll be able to use that to send directions to the instrument cluster.
01-10-2004, 08:22 AM
#10
Elder Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 11,729
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yeah I know the US CDs have that info..
just not near the amount that the Euro ones do. I have also found the Euro CDs to be more accurate. DO you know if the same company does both sets of CDs?