tytower

Deezell -I committed to one locally on ebay and should have it soon -Thanks for the URL
OK Thanks ,so we will just see. I don't agree with you on the last three posts despite the doomsayers throughout my life I have managed not to destroy things automotive but have always taken an analytical and forward approach . You might want to think through what is inside a transmission that might be damaged by Diesel or Kero. All I see is metal , fluid and a moving valve body to guide the fluid flow which must have synthetic silicon rubber O-Rings and the driving solenoids will be sealed electrically and with the wiring mounted outside the box on the back. The clutch plates won't be anything special I'll bet and I am confident new fluid won't change their grip. Metal in the fluid which is moving all around the box is another thing . It will be there and will settle to the bottom and accumulate and that includes inside the valves and around O-Rings . You cannot get much of it out by just flushing with ATF.
If you see other possible damage please let me know.

OK so on to the job .
If you need Vag-com (which I am not convinced I do for this job as I can't find any fluid level check in Vag-com as yet) here is what I did to get a working cable and program on my laptop.
I went to ebay and bought the VAG-KKL 409.1cable and CD with VAGKKL 409.1 . This just seems to be a chinese copy of Vag-com.
About $10 from Hong Kong free post and about 2 weeks.

Then I got the torrent from TPB with a newer version and a key generator from https://thepiratebay.se/torrent/4354...COM_v311.2.zip

OK some explanation is needed here for Vista or windows 7 users
Download the torrent
run the driver install exe, then the programinstall exe .
find the windows program compatability wizard ,run it ,choose vag-comm and set it to windows XP (Iassume it will run OK on XP)
Get your cable all plugged in and turn on the ignition .
Choose options and try each port selection until you find a response or if none go to hardware device manager- advanced and change the comm port to a free one 1 to 4 then go back and select that port in vag-com. Now at that point it will run once then keep crashing if you try.
After setting and testing the port -save and then go to "about". here you will now get a serial number which you must copy and paste into the serial crack box that you start from the key generator from these files on TPB.

That will give you a password that you must copy and then paste back into that "about" registration box .

If you get it right you will be told its registered . If you get it wrong use the uninstall program to remove it all and start the vag-com install again

I hope to get an edit button soon which will help to tune the posts a bit

tytower

Deezell- The ebay thing -I am in Australia . Postage on this item is $32 USD to Aus . Mine all up $24 from aussi supplier

deezell

Ok, thought you were in the US. There is no fluid level sensor, you just fill by pumping the fluid into the over flow plughole till it...overflows. This has to happen between 35-45 degrees C I think, hence the advise to use vagcom for the transmission temperature, but you could use any kind of contact probe thermometer, lots of digital ones on ebay from china for 5-10 dollars/euros. Seriously, the idea of flushing with diesel makes me shudder, especially as you cant do a 100% drain. There are plenty of posts about CVTs failing just because an auto shop used ordinary AT fluid, but a mix of diesel and fluid? surely disaster. There are variations in CVT fluids also, not all of them meet the VW/Audi spec, and why would you not use the correct one when there's little or nothing to save in cost terms. The Ravenol fluid I posted the link to is VW spec, but Ravenol do another for Nissan, Honda CVT, which isn't for VW, so it's easy for the other poster to say all CVT fluid is the same, but it's not.

deezell

CVT fluids are not all the same, this one
RAVENOL CVTF NS2/J1 Fluid - Ravenol
is not for VW/Audi, this one is
RAVENOL CVT Fluid - Ravenol
Also, I've not seen Febi fluid for less than 12US$ a litre on any site, so I suspect 9$ a litre fluid is a generic fluid without type approval. That guy was quoting Australian dollars, I checked Ebay in OZ and I cant find VW/Audi spec fluid for less that 20AUS$ a litre. Some CVT fluid for 10, but this is marked as not suitable for Audi. Some guys will only use fluid bought from an audi dealership. There are many brands of CVT fluid for sale in the US, some don't advise their use in VW/Audi. Less choice here in Europe, but these approved brands, Febi, Titan, Ravenol, Eurol would be a good percentage more expensive that standard AT fluid, about €12-16 per litre.

tytower

Yep OK thanks .

I just ask the questions to see if I can get useable info on which to base a decision. I want to get the heavy metalic shavings gunk out of the changing mechanism . ATF fluid is not going to do that very well. It seems obvious that the shavings from the metal belt and cones are the problem and why the fluid is changed frequently.

Long term , the seals on output shafts , the O-rings everywhere and any other sealing materials in the cones and valves need to be protected . There is probably an adhesive on the clutch linings to consider . Apart from the above I can see nothing else to concern me . After the Kero flush I will use good quality ATF and probably do the same collapsing maneuver if it works

Saying my approach will destroy the box is just slack and somewhat absurd. Give me some words of wisdom as to what will be destroyed and how if you think that. Thats why I asked the question.

The posts I have made here are to see if any motor engineers or gearbox specialists are around and can offer up any advice on things I may not have considered or know about without looking inside the box.

Its not whether I will do it or not . I will . Its about pre-knowledge.
I am also considering running the box while empty which I am considering might compress both cones to get fluid out but will let the steel belt go very slack and I am trying to work out if this slack chain will damage anything. Please only post if you know something of this. The chain tensioner will hold one side of it.

"The box will go fairly quickly after the warning lamp starts flashing " seems to be the general consensus on the forums so why wait for it . There is nothing to lose by trying to shock it clean .

deezell

Running the box empty to compress both the cones and run the belt slack? It's obvious now that you're just having a laugh. Mind you, it would be a good way to get all those metal shavings you yearn for.

tytower

No I'm not joking I intend to do this I am just waiting for the drain plug tool. I've only got $9000 invested in the car now and a $7000 spend for a new box is just crazy stuff so I am going to try fix it. If it busts it I will take it out and rebuild it anyway myself.

Well the belt wont turn when the pressure is off the cones. The cones won't turn if I don't rev the engine to bring in the clutch.The output shafts wont turn if the wheels are on the ground . Can you tell me what you think will happen?

Im also trying to pre -empt what would happen if I run the box with it filled with kero. Again only slowly and not for long. I can't get a clear enough picture of where the fluid is pumped and to where. Kero and diesel have very similar properties with relation to flushing and cleaning auto parts. The kero washes off parts with water more readily and the diesel is more oily.

deezell

If you run the box with Kero you will have a kero/fluid mix when you drain and refill with the correct fluid. If this mixture affects the friction coefficient to the extent that the belt is more likely to slip, then you will ruin the box. Also the protective film required to prevent metal to metal contact will be affected, leading to more wear. CVT fluid has to do two contradictory tasks, provide coolant and lubricant to prevent wear to rolling and sliding surfaces, (clutch plates, belt/chain, shaft bearings, gear teeth, cone surface and pistons), but it also has to allow for a critical friction to occur between the belt and the cones and the clutch plates, so that force is transferred between these parts. Put in ordinary oil and everything will just slip, overheat, and burn. too little lubricant film and the belt/chain will wear prematurely and fail. If you could do a 100% drain of the flushing fluid and operate the transmission under no load conditions, then you would be unlikely to damage anything, but you would need the box out on the bench to do this. If you operate the box empty of fluid, even under no load, the TCM, the electronic control, is going to register multiple faults and will require expertise to get it sorted. Experiment if you wish, but this is not an old lawnmower variator we're talking about here.
Why not just drain the fluid and see how much gunk is really there? Why do you assume that the existing fluid wont suspend and carry the debris out, but a flush of diesel would? If you get diesel into any of the variator pistons and associated valves, a simple drain will not remove it.

tytower

Makes sense Thanks

tytower

What you find when you look
I found a PDF 100page on the Multitronic and attach it here (Bit too big I think)http://www.frankensteinmotorworks.co...ultitronic.pdf
From that it seems :-

1/ There is a screen on the oil pump which could clag up but you can't get to it without dropping the box ? See screenshot -It should be slightly visible through the drain hole?

2/ There is an in line filter in the cooling lines hidden up near the radiator it seems . See the attached screenshot. I have not confirmed this on mine yet. Anybody changed one at all?

There is also some pretty interesting stuff in the pdf about the sensors on the back of the TCM and magnetic rings needing cleaning etc so I might at least pull the TCM off and make sure the plastic pieces with contacts sticking into the back of the box are undamaged and clean - anybody done this before?