marcusavant

98' b5 manual avant 30v 140k miles

my car was sitting,idling just minutes after filling it up with gas. It suddenly began to run very rough and proceeded to stall. It will start and idle, but extremely rough. sounds horrid. I pulled 3 codes:

VAG-COM Version: Release 409.1-S
Control Module Part Number: 4D0 907 551 AH
Component and/or Version: 2.8L V6/5V MOTR HS D01
Software Coding: 06201
Work Shop Code: WSC 063251

17927 - Intake Camshaft Controller,Bank 1 Malfunction - P1519 - 35-10 -- Intermittent

17800 - Camshaft Position Sensor Bank 2 (G163): Open Short to Plus P1392 - 35-00 -

16538 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor B2 S1: No Activity P0154 - 35-10 - - -Intermittent


then, I cleared them. Now, I can only get:

17800 - Camshaft Position Sensor Bank 2 (G163): Open Short to Plus P1392 - 35-00 -

Its sounds as if the driver side timing chain is loose. Its making a noise, sounds like its hitting the sides internally. I have had cam seal leaks, for quit some time. I put off repairing it for a while, cause it popped up about 6,000 miles after a new h2o pump/timing belt/tensions/pulley replacement. Upon inspection, there is a little oil on the sides of the timing belt. I checked for electrical continuity on the Cam sensor, got very low resistance: I'm thinking the sensor is fine.

I have been planning on doing a timing belt/oil leak gaskets - all of them/ water pump/ tensions and pulleys job soon, cause its about time. So, I'm thinking that I will order all the kits from Blauparts. rent the tool kit too. Maybe, even the breather valve kit, seeing is it is a big cause of oil leaks. I'm figuring I will find out whats wrong when I open it up.
.
1. What's your thoughts?
2. Why is the chain(if it is the chain)off the sprocket? Is it broke?
3. Could the Cam adjuster have been the cause?
4. Whats my chances of bent valves?
5. Am I on the right track? Is there a cheaper route/vendor?

The funny thing is, I was just on here last night, asking for a good mechanic (No replies, yet), cause I just moved. I will do this job myself anyway, cause, any respectable mechanic will kill me with cost$. I just wish I had a lift a good space to work on it.

I look forward to your guy's thoughts. thanks. I appreciate helping minds.

marcusavant

I'm feeling like the o2 sensor code is just a fluke fault code: not really part of the problem. Just a hunch.

marcusavant

anyone?

marcusavant

Ok...I goofed with somethings posted earlier. I had actually tested the cam adjuster earlier due to confusion, instead of the cam sensor. So, the bank 2 cam adjuster has continuity. yesterday, I tested the bank 2 cam sensor, no continuity between any of the 3 terminals, (+ O -). after inspecting the sensor nothing really struck me a worn or injured.

The cam sensor wiring harness terminals were also tested. I got 15.5 volts between + and -, when the ignition was turned on. I got .23 ohms resistance between the - and 0.

I also believe I got the noise wrong: I no longer think I hear the chain. I think it is a valve or cam noise, cause its coming from the middle to cam sensor vicinity on the 2nd bank/drivers side. I'm hoping its not a valve.

I will take off the front end today to expose the entire timing belt. I will inspect it closely to see if it appears to have jumped teeth (crossing my fingers). It is my understanding that a timing belt jump is much more likely than a chain jump. I have also read that P1392 will come up for low oil which is my current state. I don't really want to fill it up when I will redo seals and change it anyway. the oil light is off...so, I'm thinking my oil pressure is ok...?? (check oil light did come on when the event occured, then quickly went away).

Here is an mp3 of the recorded sound -> http://www.sendspace.com/file/p6fxa8

This is undrivable, until I fix it. I'm still looking for any thoughts/opinions. thanks.

Pics:

marcusavant

correction: Meant *P1519*

"I will take off the front end today to expose the entire timing belt. I will inspect it closely to see if it appears to have jumped teeth (crossing my fingers). It is my understanding that a timing belt jump is much more likely than a chain jump. I have also read that --*P1392*--- will come up for low oil which is my current state. I don't really want to fill it up when I will redo seals and change it anyway. the oil light is off...so, I'm thinking my oil pressure is ok...?? (check oil light did come on when the event occured, then quickly went away)."

marcusavant

I pulled the front bumper and rad support off. when I lined up TDC via the crank pulley, I found that the drivers side/bank 2 cam sprocket appears to have advanced one tooth on the timing belt. passenger side/bank one sprocket is aligned correctly.

the belt looks fine. tensioner looks fine. I attribute the jump to oil that had spread to the timing belt.

The only code I am particularly concerned with and believe is involved is p1392. I am hoping this is the cause for the code. I will proceed with the seal replacement and timing belt kit job. I think I will also do breather hoses (stupid design), oil check valves.

Any other recommendations, while I'm in there?

when I get the car all back together, is it ok to do a seafoam right away?

Am I likely to have any bent valves due to a single tooth jump?

Pete@ECSTuning

Your cam position sensor - (Hall sender is the proper name) sounds like it isn't sending signal properly. It actually is a reasonably common issue but replacements are about 100 for Bosch and 140 for OEM. I know it is more work but you should put it all together again, and rescan before replacing. If you've got a proper TDC alignment across the cams/crank then and still get the same error you may want to consider replacing the Hall sender. If I had to venture a guess, I'd say you need a new hall sender. Careful, as a complete lack of signal may cause a no start condition. You'll want to sort this out sooner than later.

Replacements can be found here - click click

marcusavant

it maybe bad. But, the car would start, just ran poorly and kept throwing the p1392 code. The sprocket's wingtabs do not line up. driver side sprocket appears to have advanced one tooth.

I am thinking the sound is coming from bent valves on the drivers side. Sux.

Pete@ECSTuning

Do a compression check first before you tear your head off. If you have low oil, that may be why you are ticking.

4Driver4

You don't have bent valves. They don't make a sounds. I'd start by getting the timing belt tools and realigning the cams. You won't even have to remove the belt. See how it sounds and runs. Check the idler wheel or the cam adjuster for noise.

If you opt for the whole belt service (and you should) do *all* the seals. The oil check valves do not have problems on the 30v. Leave them alone.